17:07:01 [jonnyg] Good evening Mr. Wilson!!
17:07:09 rllrjammer enters this room
17:07:51 [RAW] good evening jonny 17:08:26
[jonnyg] thanks for this chance to wrap our course up
17:08:51 [RAW] hello mr. rlljammer
17:08:55 [rllrjammer] Hi, everybody.
17:09:23 [RAW] my pleasure. any questions?
17:10:13 [jonnyg] What does the next 5-10 years look like in the future
17:10:45 [jonnyg] are you still hopeful like some of your mid 90s interviews or are you as scared as we are?
17:11:24 [RAW] i don't know. i expect termendous breakthroughs in the sciences and the arts. and in politics i expect nothing.
17:11:52 [jonnyg] art is best left to the utterly miserable
17:12:17 [RAW] at my age you can't get scared anymore.
17:13:05 [rllrjammer] I worry that the breakthroughs in the sciences won't happen fast enough, or be squelched before they can occur.
17:13:08 [RAW] sorry but i disagree. beethoven was not utterly miserable when he wrote the 9th sympathy, for example.
17:13:50 [jonnyg] True...the mistake of a young man who loves to jump to conclusions...in one of your books a feminist professor calls it a hymn to rape though
17:14:11 [RAW] who is going to squelch them, and how? look at history, they break through. 17:15:40 [dan] maybe the true artist has to go underground i think Duchamp said that... 17:15:52 [RAW] she might consider van gogh's "starry sky" as a glorification of serial killers. i think she's nuts.
17:16:23 [jonnyg] I am interested in the kids culture jamming...putting up fake traffic signs, arrows leading to nowhere, anti bush and war propaganda posters all over downtown SF...Has anyone here seen the posters with a stencil of a man's face and the words "OBEY"
17:17:06 [RAW] if you're original enough you'll end up in the underground if you live long enough.
17:17:54 [RAW] that's all a part of operation minkfuck.
17:17:57 [rllrjammer] I hope so. I look at the efforts to stop stem cell research and the attempts to control the quantity and availability of vitamin supplements (and other medicinal products) and think they might be successful. Other times, I'm more optimistic.
17:18:32 [jonnyg] RAW you seem to be a master of intellectual reproduction...you've spent a life researching and learning what interests you...but the amazing thing about it is you seem to have passed on your reality tunnel to all of us...Was thata conscious plan?
17:19:57 [jonnyg] To clarify...it's like your brain is breeding....seducing and mating with all of ours
17:22:28 RAW enters this room
17:23:24 [RAW] the holy inquistion did not stop science. i doubt george bush will do anybetter. 17:23:27 [jonnyg] everyone still here?
17:24:03 [rllrjammer] I'm still here.
17:25:05 [RAW] i think i have a drive to spread my memes the way most men want to spread their genes.
17:25:43 [rllrjammer] The mailman just arrived and left Info-Psychology on my doorstep! 17:26:10 [jonnyg] ME TOO! just kidding
17:26:30 [RAW] i think every writer wants to change people for the better, as far as you can understand what is the better.
17:28:48 [jonnyg] thanks, you have made my reality tunnel a hell of a lot more interesting....I know you hate to play the guru role...but what would you tell someone who wanted to put your memes into action and honor you?
17:30:37 [RAW] putting my memes into action in your life is something only you can understand. i don't know enough about your life situation. there are no general rules. only individual applications.
17:32:09 [jonnyg] What can we do besides sharing your books with friends and discussing them to bring about a more "RAW" style consciousness non aristolean thinking to the masses...I don't want to convert, but I would like more freaky peple to talk to
17:33:19 [RAW] you'll find the freaky people online. don't look in the mass media channels 17:35:06 [jonnyg] what have you experienced in your time on earth that you would tell us not to miss
17:35:22 [dan] yes, you have really made my reality tunnel much broader in what you teach and you'r example in buddhist teachings
17:36:09 [RAW] sex, drugs and rock and roll.
17:37:07 [RAW] buddhism is one of my three favorite religions.
17:37:29 [jonnyg] others?
17:38:13 [RAW] a long happy marriage. if you're lucky.
17:38:48 [RAW] and an apartment with a great ocean view.
17:39:20 [jonnyg] do folks in the OTO really partake of comingled sperm and menstrual fluid in the gnostic catholic mass?
17:39:52 sjburke enters this room
17:41:03 [RAW] depends on which OTO you're talking about. there are 1005 outer heads all leading their own OTOs.
17:41:07 [jonnyg] it makes sense...but it's pretty dissapointing as SECRETS go
17:42:06 [RAW] what's disappointing?
17:43:09 [jonnyg] The caliphate bickering in the east bay...politization of the freemason lodge I visit...people always find a way to mess up idealism with their humanity...And I am the pope 17:43:46 [jonnyg] I just want to get on with the business of creating heaven on earth like your jesuit Benoit
17:45:29 [jonnyg] I can't figure if I'd be better off loving all the assholes into submission or just killing them
17:45:52 [RAW] occult politics, like ordinary politics, shows humanity at its lowest level. i try and ignore it.
17:46:55 [RAW] i believe we have a law against killing all the assholes. if you start at the top, its not even ordinary killing anymore. it's assination.
17:47:09 [jonnyg] have you ever found an organization that satisfies our desire to share and belong and also reconciles the indviduality of each being
17:47:55 [RAW] yes, but it has no name.
17:48:13 [RAW] it just call it "friends".
17:48:53 [jonnyg] How much do you charge for membership?
17:48:58 [sjburke] Maybe you don't have to do either the loving or the killing
17:49:00 [jonnyg] sorry
17:49:50 [jonnyg] SJ?
17:50:20 [RAW] the middle way. more mentation and less munition.
17:50:44 [sjburke] I'm just getting up to speed here. Haven't used chat before
17:51:21 Josh21 enters this room
17:52:04 [Josh21] Hello, sorry I'm coming in late
17:52:11 [RAW] 9 more minutes, good folks, and i must leave the computer.
17:52:27 [sjburke] Buckminster Fullers 'livingry' (instead of weaponry) currently gives me something to do that feels useful and helpful
17:52:46 [jonnyg] If one disagrees with the actions of their gov't, wouldn't it be logical to stop funding their wars and programs...Could a movement to stop paying your taxes have any real effect under our curren monetary system
17:52:47 [RAW] hi josh. btw where is everybody, in geospace?
17:52:59 [Josh21] Well, since I've got 9 min left, thanks, Bob, it's been fun and freaky
17:53:18 [Josh21] I'm in cookeville, tn
17:53:23 [jonnyg] I'm typing for all of em RAW
17:53:38 [rllrjammer] Dublin, California
17:54:01 [sjburke] Everybody, I hope you got mucho from this course. It certainly rocked my monkey world
17:54:14 [RAW] i think it's already happening. there's hints in the media that the irs is 7 years behind auditing forms because there's so much cheeting going on.
17:54:40 [Josh21] I've had a blast-lots of trouble keeping up tho
17:54:40 [sjburke] I'm Melbourne, Australia, in the beautiful sunshine
17:54:49 [jonnyg] Cajah's Mountain, North Caroline at the fiancee's parents(they think I'm anti-social cuz they don't know bout RAW)
17:55:06 [dan] i'm here in old lancaster, P.A.
17:56:45 [sjburke] To keep up with this course, I've had to work with bigger and bigger chunks of info, until I '[arrived" at a colossal 'maybe'.
17:56:46 [RAW] i'm in capitola in my apartment overlooking the pacific bay of the pacific ocean. and i love the view. for more details on the view see "Old man on a balcony" - poems on my site. 17:57:08 [jonnyg] At the risk of being schmaltzy...while I can I'd like to say thanks to RAW...for his books, ideas and the energy to grow them in all of us...RAW you have made me a better human and the world a better place...I love knowing that growing up doesn't mean I'll get "OLD"
17:57:35 [jonnyg] and I love the little bit I know of you
17:57:52 [RAW] thank you thank you thank you
17:57:58 [jonnyg] and everyone in this class...ya'll are sex drugs and rock n roll
17:58:02 [rllrjammer] Jonyg speaks for me, also.
17:58:09 [sjburke] That's not schmaltzy at all jonnyg- I'm right with ya.
17:58:37 [Josh21] I'm with jonnyg too, great point about growing up, not old
17:59:22 [sjburke] I am now officially moved- and I don't mean 'maybe'
17:59:49 [RAW] as betty davis said, old age isn't for sissies. and as george burns said, it's better than the alterative. a hell of a lot better, i think.
18:00:09 [dan] yea.. looking foward to taking the crowley and quantum courses with RAW 18:00:51 [RAW] one final word of advice. live so that people love you. you'll need them when you get old.
18:01:23 [Josh21] thanks for the advice--have fun, bob
18:01:28 [sjburke] I return to my planet now
18:01:30 [RAW] good bye friends. see you in the later courses! -bob
18:01:35 [Josh21] see you next class
18:01:44 [rllrjammer] Thanks so much for everything
18:01:52 RAW exits from this room
18:02:04 [jonnyg] Thanks...I n I will meet again
18:03:54 [Josh21] bye,yall, its been fun
18:04:00 Josh21 exits from this room
18:05:03 [rllrjammer] Bye. everybody. Hope to talk to you all in the next class.
Tuesday, December 21, 2004
Saturday, December 11, 2004
RAW did you write this or is it a quote??
consider this from Robert Anton Wilson's "The Widow's Son"...Wilson is either quoting from a defense of freemasonry by a priest named Henri Benoit around 1797 or he wrote a beautiful summary of the purpose of speculative masonry
RAW if it is a quote can you provide some context, like where you found it and what you think of it...
If it is your words...wow...thats my next tattoo
RAW:
I wrote it...trying to imagine why an intelligent
18th Century Jesuit wd become a freemason
The fun of writing fiction, like acting, lies
in escaping yr.self and becoming an Italian
terrorist, a bisexual nobleman, a
shaman etc- even a Jesuit mason...
JG:
What a perfect demonstration of cosmic mind, indra's net and all the other FRED we've been ranting about...I think therefore I am?
Is the only barrier to experiencing "mystical oneness" your imagination?
As a gemini, I pride myself on adapting to or adjusting myself to fit any situation...even if it means acting or taking up views I don't usually...Whether my inspriation is a fictional character (Sigismundo) or a "real" person I admire, I really enjoy the attempt to jump into other reality tunnels. Many times I lose sight of who/what I was before the acting, mimicking, adaptation began and end up incorporating it into myself as another aspect of my personal experience. I find this especially helpful as a salesman since mirroring the accent, tone and mood of my clients seems to sell more than being "myself"
BM:
Pacing and Leading, hey Johnny G? Do you know any NLP theory, or are you just a 'natural'?
[I am not being offensive - that very question (or are you just what we call a 'natural'?) was asked of me by a committee member when I applied to The Arts Council for a training bursary to study mime...and they saw how little formal training I had, in spite of an extended resume as a performer. It's a snobbery against 'circus arts' that they don't consider them 'arts' when it comes to funding!]
JG:
If so...all I know about it I read in RAW's books...I googled it some and it looks like many corporations have turned it into a sales/marketing training course/tool...I have had no training and would love to consider myself a natural...but most of my luck with this stuff is from mimicing my environment or company.
Have lived in in Los Angeles, San Francisco, Florida, Hawaii, North Carolina, Mexico for spells which has blurred my natural accent to the point where most say I don't have one.
When I lived in Hawaii, they hated haoles so I affected a pidgin english accent to seem more "local"
When I lived in Mexico, I had lighter skin than most so I incorporated as much slang and border spanglish into my vocab to gain the confidence of co-workers and neighbors.
Whenever I visit my fiancee's parents in rural north carolina, I develop a keen interest in NASCAR, BBQ and a slow drawl to not seem so alien to her parents
My college friend James is from Trinidad and speaks "proper english" which I imitated whenever we hung out...so when his folks came for graduation I put on the accent and they thought I must be from Trinidad too.
The funny thing is...I can't just throw on a accent or demeanor at the drop of a hat or request...I need about a minute or so to absorb whatever I want to mimic before I can project it myself.
Bogus, can you speak on some of your experiences/training with NLP and the"circus arts"?
BM:
| Quote: |
| ..."Every Christian, of every sect, prays in church on Sunday, "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, ON EARTH as it is in heaven." Not one in a thousand stops to think what these words mean; not one in ten thousand dares to imagine that they could mean exactly what they say...Speculative Masonry is the coherent will of all those committed to the Great Work of achieving the meaning of the Lord's Prayer, so that the mind of the Great Architect of the Universe will be manifest, not only in the marvelous harmony of the stars at night but in the daily lives of men and women everywhere- on earth as it is in heaven." |
RAW if it is a quote can you provide some context, like where you found it and what you think of it...
If it is your words...wow...thats my next tattoo
RAW:
I wrote it...trying to imagine why an intelligent
18th Century Jesuit wd become a freemason
The fun of writing fiction, like acting, lies
in escaping yr.self and becoming an Italian
terrorist, a bisexual nobleman, a
shaman etc- even a Jesuit mason...
JG:
What a perfect demonstration of cosmic mind, indra's net and all the other FRED we've been ranting about...I think therefore I am?
Is the only barrier to experiencing "mystical oneness" your imagination?
As a gemini, I pride myself on adapting to or adjusting myself to fit any situation...even if it means acting or taking up views I don't usually...Whether my inspriation is a fictional character (Sigismundo) or a "real" person I admire, I really enjoy the attempt to jump into other reality tunnels. Many times I lose sight of who/what I was before the acting, mimicking, adaptation began and end up incorporating it into myself as another aspect of my personal experience. I find this especially helpful as a salesman since mirroring the accent, tone and mood of my clients seems to sell more than being "myself"
BM:
Pacing and Leading, hey Johnny G? Do you know any NLP theory, or are you just a 'natural'?
[I am not being offensive - that very question (or are you just what we call a 'natural'?) was asked of me by a committee member when I applied to The Arts Council for a training bursary to study mime...and they saw how little formal training I had, in spite of an extended resume as a performer. It's a snobbery against 'circus arts' that they don't consider them 'arts' when it comes to funding!]
JG:
If so...all I know about it I read in RAW's books...I googled it some and it looks like many corporations have turned it into a sales/marketing training course/tool...I have had no training and would love to consider myself a natural...but most of my luck with this stuff is from mimicing my environment or company.
Have lived in in Los Angeles, San Francisco, Florida, Hawaii, North Carolina, Mexico for spells which has blurred my natural accent to the point where most say I don't have one.
When I lived in Hawaii, they hated haoles so I affected a pidgin english accent to seem more "local"
When I lived in Mexico, I had lighter skin than most so I incorporated as much slang and border spanglish into my vocab to gain the confidence of co-workers and neighbors.
Whenever I visit my fiancee's parents in rural north carolina, I develop a keen interest in NASCAR, BBQ and a slow drawl to not seem so alien to her parents
My college friend James is from Trinidad and speaks "proper english" which I imitated whenever we hung out...so when his folks came for graduation I put on the accent and they thought I must be from Trinidad too.
The funny thing is...I can't just throw on a accent or demeanor at the drop of a hat or request...I need about a minute or so to absorb whatever I want to mimic before I can project it myself.
Bogus, can you speak on some of your experiences/training with NLP and the"circus arts"?
BM:
| |
|
Saturday, December 04, 2004
Friday, December 03, 2004
I n I
I and I is a complex term, referring to the oneness of Jah (God) and every human. Rastafarian scholar E. E. Cashmore: "I and I is an expression to totalize the concept of oneness, the oneness of two persons. So God is within all of us and we're one people in fact. I and I means that God is in all men. The bond of Ras Tafari is the bond of God, of man. But man itself needs a head and the head of man is His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie I of Ethiopia." The term is often used in place of "you and I" or "we" among Rastafarians, implying that both persons are united under the love of Jah.
Saturday, November 27, 2004
Wednesday, November 24, 2004
My New Operative Framework
The "secrets" of masonry have all been exposed and are readily available via net or book...
These secrets mean nothing to most people...who lack the framwork/context in which they can be understood
Masonry could be viewed as primal psychology/therapy or preparation for trancendence in that its degrees and rituals help the initiate to realize the "secrets" he seeks are already inside of him.
Only through self-searching, meditation and right action(living up to human potential) can these "secrets" be understood
The allegory and symbolism of freemasonry is both a mask and an x-ray machine...it conceals meaning superficially but under careful examination reveals all
These secrets mean nothing to most people...who lack the framwork/context in which they can be understood
Masonry could be viewed as primal psychology/therapy or preparation for trancendence in that its degrees and rituals help the initiate to realize the "secrets" he seeks are already inside of him.
Only through self-searching, meditation and right action(living up to human potential) can these "secrets" be understood
The allegory and symbolism of freemasonry is both a mask and an x-ray machine...it conceals meaning superficially but under careful examination reveals all
JFM3 thinks Mason Lodges were the first gay bars
I always thought of the masonic society as a kind of social club for gays that eventually spun out of control.
Think about it. You're a gay man in europe 250 years ago. How are you going to find dates? There must have been some kind of secret society with special handshakes and signals which one could use to locate other gays without raising unwanted attention.
Now your gay club gets found out: "Um, no officer, we were all shirtless because we're in a kind of special club, acting out a morality play ... yes, we all believe in God ... um, we were doing "initiations", that impart uh ... special knowledge ... why certainly you can be a member, I can tell your a man of good report and ... uh, what? no, you can't go back there, it's only for, um, 33rd degree masons..." So now you have a social club for regular guys that's a front for your gay bar. Imagine how weird it all must have seen from there.
This is clearly what Crowley was doing with the O.T.O., at least along one axis of analysis.
Bogus Magus:
hahahahahaha jfm3 that's brilliant!
I am not sure if it has to be 'gay' exactly, though. I have always found that male-bonding thing to be more prevalent with macho males. I live in Wales now, and sombunall men's favourite pastime is to go out and play rugby (roughly, American football without armour) rolling around in the mud and grabbing each other - then they all go and mess around in the showers or a communal plunge pool, and then go get drunk and sing with their arms around each other. Suggest to them that they prefer the company of men to their wives and girl-friends though, and you'll really get into trouble.
Whereas, sombunall gay guys actually live the life those macho's only dream or brag about - having sex with a whole bunch of different people, picking up strangers with no hassle, coming several times a day, etc.
Does anyone know if anyone has written an 'alternative history' - to include kings, and occult groups, politics and religion - from a gay perspective?
Think about it. You're a gay man in europe 250 years ago. How are you going to find dates? There must have been some kind of secret society with special handshakes and signals which one could use to locate other gays without raising unwanted attention.
Now your gay club gets found out: "Um, no officer, we were all shirtless because we're in a kind of special club, acting out a morality play ... yes, we all believe in God ... um, we were doing "initiations", that impart uh ... special knowledge ... why certainly you can be a member, I can tell your a man of good report and ... uh, what? no, you can't go back there, it's only for, um, 33rd degree masons..." So now you have a social club for regular guys that's a front for your gay bar. Imagine how weird it all must have seen from there.
This is clearly what Crowley was doing with the O.T.O., at least along one axis of analysis.
Bogus Magus:
hahahahahaha jfm3 that's brilliant!
I am not sure if it has to be 'gay' exactly, though. I have always found that male-bonding thing to be more prevalent with macho males. I live in Wales now, and sombunall men's favourite pastime is to go out and play rugby (roughly, American football without armour) rolling around in the mud and grabbing each other - then they all go and mess around in the showers or a communal plunge pool, and then go get drunk and sing with their arms around each other. Suggest to them that they prefer the company of men to their wives and girl-friends though, and you'll really get into trouble.
Whereas, sombunall gay guys actually live the life those macho's only dream or brag about - having sex with a whole bunch of different people, picking up strangers with no hassle, coming several times a day, etc.
Does anyone know if anyone has written an 'alternative history' - to include kings, and occult groups, politics and religion - from a gay perspective?
Bogus Magus Asks...
BM:
Are we now assuming that Bob is an initiated Mason, or can we allow that he is a creative writer who does thorough research and then applies his imagination?
And if that seemed sufficient for him, can you see any need to really act it out?
Not being sarcastic - just curious...
I am aware that 'imagining tripping' might not be enough...even if people who have tripped can't always explain quite what they experienced or why they thought it an important event...
_________________
JG:
wow...you got me...great point bogus
I don't know...the tripping analogy is really good too...is it just curiosity or ego or will to power? I was going to say I just want to KNOW, but maybe the better word is EXPERIENCE. I want to experience the rituals for myself...and draw my own conclusions and inferences from them...Study and reading and meditation are effective for cultivating the spirit of masonry in my everyday life...but maybe I want the shared experience, the common reference point in reality tunnels with other seekers.
I don't know if RAW would say if he is a mason...the masons I most admire don't advertise it...and don't need to. RAW's writings and the spirit of questioning without seeking conclusion he seems to possess inpsire me to live masonically whether or not I ever get accepted into a lodge
_________________
BM:
h I agree that you should have the experience if you want it - I took acid way back when because I wanted to 'know' (or even just to experience my OWN confusion, rather than merely read about other people's reported experiences).
And I have a MYOB attitude to who 'is' a Mason, or 'is' gay, or owes a lot of money (or anything private). After all, in the E-Prime world I can only ask whether Bob 'has been through masonic initiations'.
That leaves it open as to whether the people running the rituals knew what they were doing (were entitled and part of a valid tradition) and also whether the initiate was doing it out of curiosity or some 'genuine' quest. And whether those binding oaths had any lasting effect, or can be shrugged off when you no longer believe (I have noticed that, for instance, those binding marriage oaths - 'till death do us part' seem to have lost their power, in the modern world).
_________________
JG:
That depends on what your definition of Is is...
Hard to break myself of the is habit...seems easier to slap a label on everything so I don't have to analyze too deeply and can make quicker decisions. But the MYOB attitude is my own as well...a friend of mine told me he had faced some stiff resistance in our lodge when he married his partner. he didn't announce it or anything, but the same guys I had trouble with were always asking if he'd met any hot girls or offering to take him out for drinks and hunting. So he was forced to bite his tongue until he went through his initiation, and even now is carefulabout who he talks to in lodge...This really takes away from the spirit I was seeking in masonry, tolerance & the brotherhood of all men should include radicals, men who love men and women too if you ask me...But I'll have to learn to keep it shut and conform in outward appearance and manner if I want to experience a ritual.
That brings me to a point you raised...
Quote:
That leaves it open as to whether the people running the rituals knew what they were doing (were entitled and part of a valid tradition) and also whether the initiate was doing it out of curiosity or some 'genuine' quest
Are men who claim to be masons, yet ignore the principles which masonry would seem to be built upon, qualified to give degrees...It would seem a requisite for giving degrees would be an understanding of them and the message they carry...If one is unable to translate that message into something personally meaningful and then put that into action in their lives what kind of mason are they? And how can they pass what doesn't exist on to anyone else, regardless of whether they have a valid "connection" to the craft.
BTW...I dropped acid last saturday and read degree rituals and masonry books for 36 hours straight without sleeping...maybe that's part of the problem...
_________________
Are we now assuming that Bob is an initiated Mason, or can we allow that he is a creative writer who does thorough research and then applies his imagination?
And if that seemed sufficient for him, can you see any need to really act it out?
Not being sarcastic - just curious...
I am aware that 'imagining tripping' might not be enough...even if people who have tripped can't always explain quite what they experienced or why they thought it an important event...
_________________
JG:
wow...you got me...great point bogus
I don't know...the tripping analogy is really good too...is it just curiosity or ego or will to power? I was going to say I just want to KNOW, but maybe the better word is EXPERIENCE. I want to experience the rituals for myself...and draw my own conclusions and inferences from them...Study and reading and meditation are effective for cultivating the spirit of masonry in my everyday life...but maybe I want the shared experience, the common reference point in reality tunnels with other seekers.
I don't know if RAW would say if he is a mason...the masons I most admire don't advertise it...and don't need to. RAW's writings and the spirit of questioning without seeking conclusion he seems to possess inpsire me to live masonically whether or not I ever get accepted into a lodge
_________________
BM:
h I agree that you should have the experience if you want it - I took acid way back when because I wanted to 'know' (or even just to experience my OWN confusion, rather than merely read about other people's reported experiences).
And I have a MYOB attitude to who 'is' a Mason, or 'is' gay, or owes a lot of money (or anything private). After all, in the E-Prime world I can only ask whether Bob 'has been through masonic initiations'.
That leaves it open as to whether the people running the rituals knew what they were doing (were entitled and part of a valid tradition) and also whether the initiate was doing it out of curiosity or some 'genuine' quest. And whether those binding oaths had any lasting effect, or can be shrugged off when you no longer believe (I have noticed that, for instance, those binding marriage oaths - 'till death do us part' seem to have lost their power, in the modern world).
_________________
JG:
That depends on what your definition of Is is...
Hard to break myself of the is habit...seems easier to slap a label on everything so I don't have to analyze too deeply and can make quicker decisions. But the MYOB attitude is my own as well...a friend of mine told me he had faced some stiff resistance in our lodge when he married his partner. he didn't announce it or anything, but the same guys I had trouble with were always asking if he'd met any hot girls or offering to take him out for drinks and hunting. So he was forced to bite his tongue until he went through his initiation, and even now is carefulabout who he talks to in lodge...This really takes away from the spirit I was seeking in masonry, tolerance & the brotherhood of all men should include radicals, men who love men and women too if you ask me...But I'll have to learn to keep it shut and conform in outward appearance and manner if I want to experience a ritual.
That brings me to a point you raised...
Quote:
That leaves it open as to whether the people running the rituals knew what they were doing (were entitled and part of a valid tradition) and also whether the initiate was doing it out of curiosity or some 'genuine' quest
Are men who claim to be masons, yet ignore the principles which masonry would seem to be built upon, qualified to give degrees...It would seem a requisite for giving degrees would be an understanding of them and the message they carry...If one is unable to translate that message into something personally meaningful and then put that into action in their lives what kind of mason are they? And how can they pass what doesn't exist on to anyone else, regardless of whether they have a valid "connection" to the craft.
BTW...I dropped acid last saturday and read degree rituals and masonry books for 36 hours straight without sleeping...maybe that's part of the problem...
_________________
Further Adventures in Masonry
my maternal great grandfather was also a mason but he also died before I was born...
I posted my experience right after it happened last Thursday night...On Friday I got a call from the Worshipful Master about to be installed
He and I had a good talk and told me that even if I was not interested in pursuing masonry further I would be wise to make peace with the 2 brothers I had conflict with. I agreed and asked him if I was welcome to return next thursday...I plan on going back an apologizing for bringing my politics into the lodge and for losing control of my passions, I will not apologize for my politics or ideals so we'll see how it goes. He asked me what brought me to masonry, what I am seeking and what I expect...the last question gave me some pause and I admitted I had no idea...I would be swearing oaths to secrecy on something which I KNOW NOTHING....he insinuated that most of masonry's secrets are readily available to anyone looking, especially the rituals so I spent all day readin the first 3 entered apprentice, fellow craft and master mason...The problem is just as I told the worhsipful master, NO LACK OF INFORMATION...BUT HOW DO YOU KNOW WHO TO BELIEVE?
I formally apologized to 2 brothers for bringing my politics into lodge and letting my passion get the better of my reason. Most of the others had gotten wind of my "showdown in the kitchen" & thought the whole deal was BS. I went home feeling good cuz I had done what my dad would have expected me to...I admitted my trespass, but I stayed true to who I am and what i believe(weird choice of words, eh?). I could never apologize for what I think, even if I should think a little more before my mouth throws it out into other people reality tunnels. I readliy admitted that I had been hot-headed...hell that was one of the reasons I am going to lodge in the first place...to circumscribe my passions with restraint...tempus loquendi, tempus tacendi....The Master Masons to whom I was trying to explain why nuking the entire Middle East is not a really Masonic thing to do should know a little better, they live in San Francisco. I offered the Deacon the chance to whiteout his signature off my app and turned me down...It only takes one blackball vote to keep me out, but I'll choose being turned away over giving up any day of the week. I brought the first three degree rituals that I had printed off an anti-masonic website into lodge and showed the worshipful master of a lodge in Hawaii to see if they were the real deal...He said they sure as shit were...then I asked him if he had read RAW's description of a degree ritual in The Earth Will Shake...he laughed and said it was the best he's ever read because it wasn't just scripted lines like a play...but captured the setting, emotion and experience as best can be put to paper...I can't wait to see what all the fuss is about if I get the chance
I posted my experience right after it happened last Thursday night...On Friday I got a call from the Worshipful Master about to be installed
He and I had a good talk and told me that even if I was not interested in pursuing masonry further I would be wise to make peace with the 2 brothers I had conflict with. I agreed and asked him if I was welcome to return next thursday...I plan on going back an apologizing for bringing my politics into the lodge and for losing control of my passions, I will not apologize for my politics or ideals so we'll see how it goes. He asked me what brought me to masonry, what I am seeking and what I expect...the last question gave me some pause and I admitted I had no idea...I would be swearing oaths to secrecy on something which I KNOW NOTHING....he insinuated that most of masonry's secrets are readily available to anyone looking, especially the rituals so I spent all day readin the first 3 entered apprentice, fellow craft and master mason...The problem is just as I told the worhsipful master, NO LACK OF INFORMATION...BUT HOW DO YOU KNOW WHO TO BELIEVE?
I formally apologized to 2 brothers for bringing my politics into lodge and letting my passion get the better of my reason. Most of the others had gotten wind of my "showdown in the kitchen" & thought the whole deal was BS. I went home feeling good cuz I had done what my dad would have expected me to...I admitted my trespass, but I stayed true to who I am and what i believe(weird choice of words, eh?). I could never apologize for what I think, even if I should think a little more before my mouth throws it out into other people reality tunnels. I readliy admitted that I had been hot-headed...hell that was one of the reasons I am going to lodge in the first place...to circumscribe my passions with restraint...tempus loquendi, tempus tacendi....The Master Masons to whom I was trying to explain why nuking the entire Middle East is not a really Masonic thing to do should know a little better, they live in San Francisco. I offered the Deacon the chance to whiteout his signature off my app and turned me down...It only takes one blackball vote to keep me out, but I'll choose being turned away over giving up any day of the week. I brought the first three degree rituals that I had printed off an anti-masonic website into lodge and showed the worshipful master of a lodge in Hawaii to see if they were the real deal...He said they sure as shit were...then I asked him if he had read RAW's description of a degree ritual in The Earth Will Shake...he laughed and said it was the best he's ever read because it wasn't just scripted lines like a play...but captured the setting, emotion and experience as best can be put to paper...I can't wait to see what all the fuss is about if I get the chance
Monday, November 08, 2004
What would Jesus Do? (...if he were president)
Would Jesus spend $140 BILLION ON WAR when a single child in any nation goes hungry?
Would Jesus ever invade another country?
What about to preempt a danger that turned out not to exist?
Would Jesus continue to occupy this country for over a year (so far) and institute martial law on its people?
Would Jesus offer a no-bid contract to Halliburton to profit off this occupation at the expense of US taxpayers?
Would Jesus pay the truck drivers and janitors and line cooks imported from the far corners of the world the SAME OR MORE than his own soldiers?
Would Jesus physically and psychologically TORTURE other humans held as
Prisoners of War?
Would Jesus hold men prisoner for YEARS without facing charges?
Would Jesus turn an unpopular minority into a scapegoat for the real problems with the country?
Does Jesus ever say he hates GAYS or MUSLIMS anywhere in the new testament?
Would Jesus be in favor of laws that stand in the way of two people who love each other?
Would Jesus give a tax break to corporations and the rich?
Could Jesus forgive a man who pridefully refused to admit his sins and trespasses?
Would Jesus ever invade another country?
What about to preempt a danger that turned out not to exist?
Would Jesus continue to occupy this country for over a year (so far) and institute martial law on its people?
Would Jesus offer a no-bid contract to Halliburton to profit off this occupation at the expense of US taxpayers?
Would Jesus pay the truck drivers and janitors and line cooks imported from the far corners of the world the SAME OR MORE than his own soldiers?
Would Jesus physically and psychologically TORTURE other humans held as
Prisoners of War?
Would Jesus hold men prisoner for YEARS without facing charges?
Would Jesus turn an unpopular minority into a scapegoat for the real problems with the country?
Does Jesus ever say he hates GAYS or MUSLIMS anywhere in the new testament?
Would Jesus be in favor of laws that stand in the way of two people who love each other?
Would Jesus give a tax break to corporations and the rich?
Could Jesus forgive a man who pridefully refused to admit his sins and trespasses?
Sunday, November 07, 2004
Sunday, October 24, 2004
Thursday, October 21, 2004
NOT IN MY LODGE
I have been going to a masonic lodge here in SF for the last six months...the biggest reason why is RAW. I read the Illuminatus and then the Historical Illuminatus and got it in my head that I wanted to live in the Sigismundo Celine reality tunnel for while. So a week ago, after meeting the 1 year residency requirement here in CA, I cam early to lodge to turn in my application. I had let it be known that I had a few blemishes on my criminal record in the six months I had been coming to meetings and making friends. Namely 2 pot possession charges and a disorderly conduct charge for talking too loud in a public library(REALLY...check my website). NO convictions though and no felonies so was told that shouldn't be too big an issue. After all this is San Francisco, right? Anyway, by arriving early I knew I could have a few beers and help with dinner with all the officers of the lodge who always get there early. The conversation turned to politics even though you aren't supposed to discuss that in lodge...and I had been discussing 9/11 conspiracy theories with you guys all week...so I let it be known that I though Bush/Cheney had not only allowed the 9/11 attacks to happen...they ordered them. The six other men in the room were all over 50 and retired and did not like my 23 year old hot-headed attitude...The Worshipful master of another lodge was there and he happens to be Armenian...he said we should kill every vicious Islamist in the middle east and I said that was the most unmasonic thing I'd ever heard from a man who knew personally of the genocide perpetrated aginst his own people. I said a lot of other things and didn't give an inch...like if Bill O'Reilly or Rush got hit in the head and became just as big a liberal ASSHOLE. I also managed to turn in my app and a check for $300 and did all the dishes before I went home. While washing the pots I commented to the lodge Secretary who had signed my app that I had thrown out six months of ass-kissing in one night.
So when I go to lodge this week I was aware there could be problems...After the pre-dinner prayer while I was waiting in line for food, the secretary pulled me aside and into the temple. We sat down and he told me that after last week he had reservations about signing my app and had decided to take his signature off with White-Out. He mentioned that the six other officers felt similarly after last week and my nutty conspiracy theory with no evidence and said it was wrong not to support our president when we are at war with another country(I was about to ask which country that was...or if TERROR was even a country, but held my tongue) I asked what specifically gave him pause about recommending me since I had told him about my brushes with the law 5 months before and it hadn't seemed too grave an issue. I felt he was letting political difference define our relationship contrary to my understanding of masonry. He said he felt I might bring discord and conflict into the lodge when it is supposed to be harmonious and peaceful and that I didn't know when to quit and that I went for the jugular. I collected myself and argued that the qualities he questioned were the ones I had relied on to survive since running away from my mom's at 11 to losing my dad to Lou Gehrigs's disease at 17 to graduating a year early from high school to go to the Univ of Hawaii and then UNC before graduation at 20 and paying for it all myself. I've gone from a homeless, penniless student to a television producer in Nuevo Laredo,Mexico...A car salesman in Orlando, FL and now work for Dow Jones in Priavte Equity in SF...I was proud of being ruthless and never giving up and I told him my dad, the only judge I cared about would be proud of me. He told me my dad would say I had a lot of growing up to do and that got me in my heart. By this time two initiations were supposed to begin and he told me to go back up to lodge and see if someone else would sign for me. I said I wasn't sure I wanted to be in a lodge where all the officers didn't want me there. He said he wouldn't sign for me, but also would not speak against me when it came down to blackball time. I told him I needed a week to think on it and would be back to get another signature next week. He said this was a tough decision and whited out his name handed me the app and my check and I grabbed my backpack and walked out feeling like I might cry.
I compartmentalized my experience with one(or six masons) and my conception of masonry though reading and study...I still want to do more than read, though; I want to participate and overstand ritual and experience masonry firsthand. I could find another lodge, or go back and get another brother to sign at this one...but is this FREEMASONRY? If George Washington and T Jefferson had hesitated to question the King when he was at war with his own people, where would we be today? What about the brotherhood of all men regardless of race, color, creed, politics or religion? I was excited about this lodge after visiting one other because it was younger and more diverse and it's in SF...The Worshipful Master about to be installed is big on Masonic History and the Esoteric and mystical aspects of the craft which is where my own interests lie. I am not ready to give up but I am torn between my vision of masonry conceived through reading and without any ritual experience and another master mason's vision of what makes a good mason(or not a good one in my case)
This RAW quote from THE EARTH WILL SHAKE is what I am looking for...I'm not Christian, just Utopian and really tired of people telling me it's a windmill quest
Quote:
..."Every Christian, of every sect, prays in church on Sunday, "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, ON EARTH as it is in heaven." Not one in a thousand stops to think what these words mean; not one in ten thousand dares to imagine that they could mean exactly what they say...Speculative Masonry is the coherent will of all those committed to the Great Work of achieving the meaning of the Lord's Prayer, so that the mind of the Great Architect of the Universe will be manifest, not only in the marvelous harmony of the stars at night but in the daily lives of men and women everywhere- on earth as it is in heaven."
please tell me what yoiu think and don't spare my feelings...Rejection is my worst fear so I have no reason to be sacred now.
PS: The secretary asked me the last time I smoked marijuana...I considered my options rapidly and decided honesty is always the best policy...I STAY HIGH ALL THE TIME was my reply
So when I go to lodge this week I was aware there could be problems...After the pre-dinner prayer while I was waiting in line for food, the secretary pulled me aside and into the temple. We sat down and he told me that after last week he had reservations about signing my app and had decided to take his signature off with White-Out. He mentioned that the six other officers felt similarly after last week and my nutty conspiracy theory with no evidence and said it was wrong not to support our president when we are at war with another country(I was about to ask which country that was...or if TERROR was even a country, but held my tongue) I asked what specifically gave him pause about recommending me since I had told him about my brushes with the law 5 months before and it hadn't seemed too grave an issue. I felt he was letting political difference define our relationship contrary to my understanding of masonry. He said he felt I might bring discord and conflict into the lodge when it is supposed to be harmonious and peaceful and that I didn't know when to quit and that I went for the jugular. I collected myself and argued that the qualities he questioned were the ones I had relied on to survive since running away from my mom's at 11 to losing my dad to Lou Gehrigs's disease at 17 to graduating a year early from high school to go to the Univ of Hawaii and then UNC before graduation at 20 and paying for it all myself. I've gone from a homeless, penniless student to a television producer in Nuevo Laredo,Mexico...A car salesman in Orlando, FL and now work for Dow Jones in Priavte Equity in SF...I was proud of being ruthless and never giving up and I told him my dad, the only judge I cared about would be proud of me. He told me my dad would say I had a lot of growing up to do and that got me in my heart. By this time two initiations were supposed to begin and he told me to go back up to lodge and see if someone else would sign for me. I said I wasn't sure I wanted to be in a lodge where all the officers didn't want me there. He said he wouldn't sign for me, but also would not speak against me when it came down to blackball time. I told him I needed a week to think on it and would be back to get another signature next week. He said this was a tough decision and whited out his name handed me the app and my check and I grabbed my backpack and walked out feeling like I might cry.
I compartmentalized my experience with one(or six masons) and my conception of masonry though reading and study...I still want to do more than read, though; I want to participate and overstand ritual and experience masonry firsthand. I could find another lodge, or go back and get another brother to sign at this one...but is this FREEMASONRY? If George Washington and T Jefferson had hesitated to question the King when he was at war with his own people, where would we be today? What about the brotherhood of all men regardless of race, color, creed, politics or religion? I was excited about this lodge after visiting one other because it was younger and more diverse and it's in SF...The Worshipful Master about to be installed is big on Masonic History and the Esoteric and mystical aspects of the craft which is where my own interests lie. I am not ready to give up but I am torn between my vision of masonry conceived through reading and without any ritual experience and another master mason's vision of what makes a good mason(or not a good one in my case)
This RAW quote from THE EARTH WILL SHAKE is what I am looking for...I'm not Christian, just Utopian and really tired of people telling me it's a windmill quest
Quote:
..."Every Christian, of every sect, prays in church on Sunday, "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, ON EARTH as it is in heaven." Not one in a thousand stops to think what these words mean; not one in ten thousand dares to imagine that they could mean exactly what they say...Speculative Masonry is the coherent will of all those committed to the Great Work of achieving the meaning of the Lord's Prayer, so that the mind of the Great Architect of the Universe will be manifest, not only in the marvelous harmony of the stars at night but in the daily lives of men and women everywhere- on earth as it is in heaven."
please tell me what yoiu think and don't spare my feelings...Rejection is my worst fear so I have no reason to be sacred now.
PS: The secretary asked me the last time I smoked marijuana...I considered my options rapidly and decided honesty is always the best policy...I STAY HIGH ALL THE TIME was my reply
Tuesday, September 28, 2004
Monday, September 27, 2004
Which Tarot Card Are You?
I Am
Which tarot card are you?
Undirected Creative Force. Open, receptive, devoid of pre-conceived notions. Beginnings.
A young man holding the white rose of innocence in his left hand and grasping a vagabond's staff and satchel in the other, wanders with his gaze to the heaves, about to step into and abyss. His is the transformative journey of the spirit from innocence through experience into wisdom. his guardian and friend is the white dog symbolizing his own puppylike trust and faith, for which the world labels him The Fool.
Which tarot card are you?
Undirected Creative Force. Open, receptive, devoid of pre-conceived notions. Beginnings.
A young man holding the white rose of innocence in his left hand and grasping a vagabond's staff and satchel in the other, wanders with his gaze to the heaves, about to step into and abyss. His is the transformative journey of the spirit from innocence through experience into wisdom. his guardian and friend is the white dog symbolizing his own puppylike trust and faith, for which the world labels him The Fool.
Saturday, September 25, 2004
Tuesday, September 14, 2004
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